RER
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"Democracy & Freedom"
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Post by RER on Aug 12, 2006 16:10:43 GMT -5
"Part Two: My Hawcreek The Early Income Driver"
During my very early 1950s walking the Hawcreek banks on both sides (at different days or weeks) I discovered a hot bubbling discharge coming from the ground in the woods. The discharge was steaming and very hot and grayish in color. The location was in the golf course left woods, about 50 to 75 yards as you tee off toward the 2nd hole at that time.
This discharge had caused a huge area to be like quick sand because of the constant heat, steam and bubbling of liquids and chemicals, I assumed. It wasn't possible to retrieve lost golf balls or any other objects within the area described. I always tried to figure out what caused it and could only conclude that a pipe must have been placed from Arvin's Industry, under the golf course fairways into the woods near the creek.
The assumption was that Arvins was disposing of hot something into the woods and creek. Additionally, on the hospital side of the 17th Street Bridge was a discharge pipe I concluded that maybe it was coming from the hospital buildings. Then of course further past the State Street bridge was Stadler's Meat Packing Company. It goes without saying that the creek was probably used to dispose of liquids from the plant.
Well, with all these assumptions and thoughts going through a very young boys mind at least I had enough sense not to catch and eat fish from Hawcreek. Keep in mind I was around 9 through maybe 12 exploring Hawcreek and many other creeks and locations.
The most interesting discovery I every made at Hawcreek was one year I found this enormous sized sponge mushroom growing on a small island like place, in the middle of the hot, steamy discharge area. The Sponge mushroom was a challenge to reach without stepping into the quick sand like grayish muck; but I retrieved it. The brown top sponge portion was about the size of softball in diameter.
I was probably around 12 at that time and thought; this can't be good to eat with all the hot, steamy, grayish muck all around. Anyway, I took it home to show my Mom and Dad. I told them the story, but I insisted to them that we were not going to cook this one in butter and eat it. Of course we didn't cook it or eat it; it went in file thirteen so to speak.
From, Hawcreek 25th Street near the ole Bob-O-Link all the way down to the State Street Bridge (near Stadler) was spotted with large and small water holes. When the rain was less off course the pools were smaller in some cases and full of trapped fish and snakes. During flooding of course I stayed home and didn't go to the creek until it dried up somewhat.
I fished in Hawcreek but never cleaned them or took them home because of the run-offs I suspected by the three locations described above. I had great times with friends exploring the banks, the full distances. The income was always available because the creek and woods stayed full of lost golf balls, for resale at the 17th Street Bridge.
Bob
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nancs
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Post by nancs on Aug 12, 2006 16:49:59 GMT -5
Hi Bob, and for some time now I have been going to post my 'Hawcreek' memories, but seems like I've just had way too many irons in the fire here of late. Until your first Hawcreek posts, I really never gave a thought about from whence Hawcreek came. (Google Earth did come in real handy when this thought crossed my mind.) I really didn't!!!!! I 'knew' Hawcreek like the back of my hand from 10th St. to over by Stadler's. Knew all the best 'hideouts,' where to avoid the quick sand, where it was safe to ford, the areas to avoid that were inhabited with water moccasins, the best sand bars, places to avoid as hobo type folks sometimes frequented some spots. Hawcreek would flood, and totally consume our shared pasture field, (just south and west of Hawcreek 7th St. Bridge in the 40s/early 50s, now all Cummins), and you could literally have fished out my folks' bedroom window during the spring floods. It was always my 'job' to 'clean up' the pasture after the water went down to get rid of the broken glass, tin cans, and other things that might have presented a danger of injury to the horses. Man, it was a great day when an old metal laundry tub remained as the waters receded and with a rope attached I had my horse dragging it around to carry all this junk, made it much easier for me. Never ever gave a thought to why I would also find golf balls!!!!!! Nor was I enterprising enough to realize any cash for my finds!!!!! And Bob, in regards, to 'something nasty' being dumped into the creek. On more than one occasion, the creek in our pasture, and I suppose over by Saddle Club Grounds, would be lined with dead fish. Can't say that it happened often, as I can only recall a few times that we kept the horses stabled until my dad felt that the creek water was safe for them to drink again. I only remember my dad saying that 'something must have been dumped' in the creek to pollute it. And knowing my dad, my guess would be that he did try to find the source of the problem, but..................I never really thought a great deal about that. Most of the time, it seemed that the creek was 'clean.' Altho' know I was never allowed to just wade in it, as there was always glass in the creek bed just waiting 'for a bare foot.' I always had to wear either old rubber boots, or old shoes to wade across to catch my horse on the other side. And I surely never caught a fish from it, with my stick pole, string line, and a safety pin hook. ;D At the Saddle Club Grounds there was a hand pump, but that water was not fit for human consumption. Not that it was probably labeled as such, but just a fact that everyone knew. Your Hawcreek posts sure gave me food for thought. Thanks for sharing. Just an FYI, in the 1940s thread, my reply # 36, includes several photos of the 7th St./Hawcreek area, that I refer to. Nanc
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RER
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"Democracy & Freedom"
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Post by RER on Aug 12, 2006 18:20:01 GMT -5
Part Three: "My Hawcreek Experiences and Early Income"
Great, experiences Nanc and you too enjoyed the adventures of the creek. Sorry, you didn't cash in on selling your golf balls at 17th Street bridge or on the course. The creek was very clean for a long period after the heavy rains and some floods. I recall the banks got higher from the golf course bridge all the way to Stadlers.
The banks were lower the opposite direction from the golf bridge. I think the golf creek crossing bridge was about a half a mile to the 17th Street bridge. The Club House (owned by Mr. Sharp at the time) was in low creek country so to speak. Then winding on around parallel to the water system building and baseball fields, and past the present ice skating rink was also lower banks. However, I found more snakes and wild animals from 17th Street bridge to the 25th Street bridge.
What a great time and experience. I suppose one day I'll write about my Clifty Creek adventures and some hunting trips when I was sitting under a shag bark hickory tree when a red fox walked by me. That is another story later.
Bob
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malynda
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Post by malynda on Aug 14, 2006 18:46:17 GMT -5
Does anyone remember "Bill's Self Serve"? It was a meat market located on 25th and Beam Road. I believe it would have been in business around 1948-1950 time period. My father, Billy Cooper, owned this store and I am trying to find any information or memories of this store. I just recently found my brother, after 35 years, and he is the one who has provided most of this information for me. We are now trying to do some family research together. If you remember this place at all or have any information on it or my father please reply.
Thanks in advance, Malynda
PS- does anyone know if I can go to the court house records to find information on an old business?
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nancs
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Post by nancs on Aug 15, 2006 9:12:18 GMT -5
Welcome Malynda, to the message boards. During my recent trip back to Columbus, I found that the Records Dept. of the county offices to be a great source of info. From the way you wrote, I am guessing that you are 'somewhat in the area.' The ladies in that department were great in helping me locate info. Surely worth the effort to offer your question and see if you get any leads. As well as, I found the Cleo Rogers Library in Columbus, another great source of info. Not only are the old newspapers available on micro-film (there is another word for it tho' ;-), but cross directories as well. I was amazed at the info that the librarian came up with for me. Good luck with your search. Trust me, it will be a lot of fun, and one little clue will lead to many more. Just fascinating. Enjoy. And stick around these boards, as many people are out there posting memories. It is amazing the info that appears. Nanc
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RER
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"Democracy & Freedom"
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Post by RER on Aug 15, 2006 9:23:51 GMT -5
Malynda: (Welcome !! to the Historical Boards)
I can only supply a very limited amount of information to what you have sited on Bill's Self Serve meat market. Maybe, your father sold out to the listing I found in the 1953 Columbus Directory that follows: _______________________________________
From the 1953 City Directory
25th STREET From Washington Street (Toward Bob-O-Link)
National Road (highway 31) intersects
se corner Bob-O-Link (restaurant) Bob-O-Link Drive In (restautant)
*Allen’s Self Service (grocery) (This is the Self Service I remember in 1952 and 1953) Beam Road intersects
* Floyd Eads (gasoline station) ....This station was across the Beam Road and 25th Street intersection. In other words across the street from the Self Serve Grocery.
____________________________________________________________
NOTE: I didn't move to 15th Street until 1950 at a single digit age. Beam Road was not totally developed from 17th Street to US 31 until 1952 or so. It was a dirt road for a short time. I don't recall a meat shop called Bill's Self-Service, but do remember The Self Service grocery above, and perhaps at the same location you described.
National Road (highway 31) intersects
* Kay Manufacturing Co. (The Columbus Motel was across the street from Kay's. Kay's was on Beam Road on the right going toward the intersection of Beam and 25th where the Self-Service Grocery was located. I delivered newspapers at the motel and the Bob-O-Link in the 1950s but they were my most further out customers, and it stopped with them.
25th. intersects
If you go to the court house I suspect they will have history of the store and names of ownership etc. Hope to see you and others posting memories here on the boards.
Bob
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nancs
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Post by nancs on Aug 15, 2006 9:50:45 GMT -5
Good job, Bob, and I keep forgetting that I have a 1951 phone directory. I will eventually scan and post the ad I found for 'Allen's Self Serv,' as you mentioned. In the meantime, this is the contents of the ad. Allen's Self Serv Open 7 days a week COMPLETE LINE OF GROCERIES LOCATED 1 block east of Bob-o-Link 46 and Beam Rd.
Petersville Rd.....................7135 Malynda, I would think that armed with some of this info you would be able to find additional info in the cross directories that are availabe in the library, going back two or three years. There are a few missing volumes, but think that you could probably find out where your father lived, as well as who his neighbors were. Then, think I would post that kind of info here, on the off chance that someone reading the boards might have lived in your dad's neighborhood. And you just might be 'off 'n running' on additional leads. Good luck, will read with much interest how your search unfolds. Keep us up to date. Nanc
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RER
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"Democracy & Freedom"
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Post by RER on Aug 15, 2006 10:16:43 GMT -5
Wow Nanc, that was fast and great ! Here is additional information Malynda may be able to use in her hunt. The following are names and addresses of families that lived next to Bill's Self Serve meat market in 1953. Hope, these names might help in your search. Keep in mind that if you contact them, some may be older or you may be talking to their children. We are talking 56 or 57 years ago here. Good Luck ! Here are the names:
National Road (highway 31) intersects
se corner Bob-O-Link (restaurant) Bob-O-Link Drive In (restautant)
Griffa Avenue begins:
Adolf A. Fritsch William H. Fox Edwin E. Theobald Vernon A. Forgey Vacant Arthur Tracy John W. Bishop E. Eugene Lawless Albert W. Baker Herman R. Medaris Basil R. Brummet S. Eugene Mizer Robert Fiesbeck Jr. Allen’s Self Service (grocery)
Beam Road intersects
Bob
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nancs
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Post by nancs on Aug 15, 2006 10:28:05 GMT -5
Hmmmmm, Bob, with your posting of names---------I recognized one, I'm sure: William Fox, and since I have been 'removed' from Columbus for 'lo, so many years,' other than the Bob-o-Link, was the only 'landmark' I could recall. But with the mention of William Fox, I do remember where they lived. These folks were friends of my parents, and had a son, I believe, several years younger than me---------almost think that in my mom's 'treasures' there is a photo Christmas card of this family, and if such is the case, I may eventually be able to produce the son's name. Gee whiz, Malynda, now I am as fascinated with your search as you probably are. Gosh, this is fun!!!!!!!!!!!! Nanc
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Post by richard on Aug 15, 2006 10:40:33 GMT -5
Somewhere on this board someone posted their comments about having worked at a Bowling Alley as pin spotters. Today’s local newspaper ‘The Republic’ Looking Back column has the following information from this date in 1956.
Austin Miller the owner of Miller Bowling Lanes which was located at 2000 National Road announced the end of using pin boys. Fully automatic pin-setters were being used for the first time in his alley.
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Post by Malynda Lucy on Aug 15, 2006 10:52:59 GMT -5
YEAH!!!!
Thanks so much to everyone for all the help and inspiration!!
We are definitely on the right track. William Fox was definately a neighbor and is actually my brother's uncle (he is my half brother so the Fox family is not my relation but his). I know that he said that his uncle lived just down from the store a couple of houses.
I will have to take a trip to the records and see what all I can find. I am about 2-2.5 hrs north of Columbus but I may be able to get there in the next few weeks.
I can't wait to share this with my brother! Until I met my brother (who is 25 years older than me) I never even knew anything about a store. This is so neat!! He has really shed some light on my family history.
Finding my brother and learning about my father has definitely been a highlight I will never forget!
Thanks again to everyone and I will keep you updated on my findings, Malynda
PS- my father, Billy Cooper, was from Hope, Indiana but lived in Columbus for sometime.
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nancs
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Post by nancs on Aug 15, 2006 11:13:34 GMT -5
OMG, Malynda, the world just gets smaller every single day!!!!! Of all the names, and only one that I recognized, and to be 'sort of family of yours.' That has to be a real WHOA!!!! Went out to feed my horses, as they were thinking 'their mommy' had forgotten them this morning!!!! ;D And as I cleaned corrals, decided I'd look for the photo Christmas card when I was finished with that chore. And wella, the second envelop I looked in produced not one, but two cards. Wife: Mary, Husband: Bill, Son: Michael. The one of Michael as a baby was dated 1951, so am guessing his birthdate would have been in that year. Just checked the Columbus Logs on the website homepage, and there is a 'Michael Fox' in the 1969 Log. With a birth year of 1951, would guess that is probably the right 'Michael.' (I just typed in a search on the homepage of Michael Fox to come up with that info.) I did check 'Google Earth' to confirm my thinking on where these folks lived, and I was on target on that, so think it is all jelling. Got a ton to do today, but will scan the two Christmas photo cards and that ad, and post them here eventually. This is surely, an 'oh, my.' And YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!! Fun isn't it? Nanc
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Post by malynda lucy on Aug 15, 2006 11:26:01 GMT -5
Nanc Thanks so much!! Would there be anyway I could get you to email the scans directly to me? Thanks in advance, Malynda
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RER
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"Democracy & Freedom"
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Post by RER on Aug 15, 2006 11:26:18 GMT -5
.Richard said from newspaper: "Austin Miller the owner of Miller Bowling Lanes which was located at 2000 National Road announced the end of using pin boys. Fully automatic pin-setters were being used for the first time in his alley." ______________________________________________ I remember that well, when the pin-setters lost their jobs to the automatics. I went and bowled at Miller's many times off and on during pin-setters days and after. I walked into the back once and watched the pin-setters in action. Downtown main had another small bowling alley, but I forget where it was but they kept pin-setters in action longer and I don't think they ever went automatic. They closed in some unknown year. Bob
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nancs
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Post by nancs on Aug 15, 2006 11:27:55 GMT -5
Sure, well, I say sure, I 'think' that I know how to do that. Give me a bit of time, tho'. Nanc
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nancs
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Post by nancs on Aug 15, 2006 11:37:16 GMT -5
Gosh, Bob, I'm not that much older than you are, and you are far more enterprising that I was!!!! You mean you didn't get a job setting pins??? ;D Out here in CA, we had a high school PE class-------bowling. And were transported by bus to the local bowling alley for 'a bowling class.' All girl class, and you had to take your turn setting pins. And in looking back, I only remember that it was fun to set the pins, through perhaps more mature eyes now, it probably wasn't all that safe a task!!!!! Don't suppose the school systems of today would be much willing to take on 'that liability.' As it was rather a scare when some 'ding-a-ling' let go of a ball, headed it down the alley, and you weren't out of the way yet!!!!!!!!!!!!! Not a Columbus memory, just one of the 50s. Nanc
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RER
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"Democracy & Freedom"
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Post by RER on Aug 15, 2006 12:35:37 GMT -5
"From The Columbus Jive Kennel to The Whiteland Barn To Dance" Well, in and around 1957 through 1959 the “pressure relief valve” was not the Columbus Jive Kennel's ping pong, juke box dancing and cards; but the Whiteland Barn dance hall. On Sunday nights when everyone was supposed to be studying for classes the next day at Columbus High School, I was dancing with the ladies at the Whiteland Barn off North US 31 above Franklin Indiana. Rock and Roll spin records, and live bands, plus "Bouncing Bill Baker" from WIBC Indianapolis radio hosted in those days. Song Like: "Come Let’s Stroll, Stroll Across The Floor"...........and....... "Let's Twist Again, Like We Did Last Summer"...."Hey Bo-Diddley"..........."Come With Me to the Sea, To the Sea Of Love"............" Get a Job, Sean, Na Na, Yep, Yep, Yep"....... "Yackety Sacks, Yackey, Yack, Yackety Yack".........and on and on. You say, Bob you should be ashamed of yourself for sneaking out of the Jive Kennel on Sunday nights, and not putting your nose in those books for the next day. Well, I did and I don't regret anything I did in my younger days, because I had fun and was adventurous to say it bluntly. I wasn't a trouble maker kid, just a kid that enjoyed life and had a lot of great friends. The word party.............well where is it and I am there? All of this didn't hurt me in life and my future had plenty of time to catch up to me, not me catching up with it. I loved to dance and that has carried throughout my whole life. Anyway, the Jive Kennel was a great place for kids to gather, but the Whiteland Barn on Sunday nights couldn't be beat. Well, once the future caught up with my pace I became an outstanding student in College and my life endeavors; which was a big change from my "go, go ways" of high school. So, my method of life's direction has been a trip, rewarding and of course fun
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Margo CHS Class of 55
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Age is an issue of mind over matter. If you don't mind; it doesn't matter.
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Post by Margo CHS Class of 55 on Aug 15, 2006 14:24:43 GMT -5
I will have to take a trip to the records and see what all I can find. I am about 2-2.5 hrs north of Columbus but I may be able to get there in the next few weeks.
***************** Malynda
If you let us know in advance when you are coming someone off the board who is local could possibly meet you for lunch. I suspect you must be in Carmel..Fishers.. or farther north of Indy. PLEASE JOIN THE web site..( it's free ) and give us some more info on your family.
WELCOME TO THIS SITE...MARGO CHS CLASS of '55
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RER
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"Democracy & Freedom"
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Post by RER on Aug 15, 2006 14:46:39 GMT -5
"The Jive Kennel a Canteen For The Teens of The 1950s"During the 1950s the Jive Kennel was a place during the week that kids could visit and meet friends, converse and enjoy the entertainment. The Jive Kennel had ping pong tables, pool tables, card tables, juke box, space to dance, telephones and a soda jerk area for candies and bottled pop. Many Columbus High School students would come and go from the Kennel and use it as a meeting place for get togethers and dates even. Many of the students would bring their books and even study at the Jive Kennel. It was open every night that I could remember, but Fridays, and Saturdays (if no sports games) was busy nights. The Jive Kennel was a clean, stable, safe atmosphere for kids to hang-out at. I don't recall much of any problems or disturbances during my fours years of exposure. It was next door to the Crump Theater on 3rd and Franklin. Many times on Saturday I would just walk from the Kennel to either the Crump or Mode Theaters. Good memories for many young kids in those days. Bob
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malynda
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Post by malynda on Aug 15, 2006 15:15:37 GMT -5
Margo, Thanks so much for the welcome and the offer. I may just take someone up on that in the near future. I just recently (Saturday) came down to Hope, IN to visit where my father is buried etc.
It was a great trip and I got to meet my brother and his family for the first time.
I will keep you updated on the progress and thanks again to everyone for helping, Malynda
PS- I live near Kokomo, IN
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