RER
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Post by RER on Aug 25, 2009 14:10:36 GMT -5
State Bank of Indiana During Years 1833 to 1859Comment: If you were lucky enough in those days to have a dollar or a few dollars in paper currency this is what they looked like. Of course there were various coins and gold coins. Columbus & County Brief: In 1821 Bartholomew County became an Indiana county. During 1864 Columbus was incorporated as an Indiana city. Indiana Dollar Bill Picture & Historical Information:A one dollar bank note from the Bank of Indiana. Portraits are of Hugh McCulloch and Samuel Merrill. Mr. McCulloch was the President of the Indiana Bank and United States Secretary of the Treasury. Mr. Merrill was the State Treasurer of Indiana. As treasurer, Mr. Merrill oversaw transfer of the capitol from Corydon to Indianapolis, an arduous task. When the move took place it was an eleven day journey by horseback from Corydon to the new capitol. To complicate matters, no road existed and a path for the wagons had to be cut through the dense forests during the winter trip as the long caravan moved north. The caravan was necessarily large, it contained the state treasury, state library, state records, the furniture of the General Assembly, Supreme Court, and Execute Offices, along with a whole host of other implements to aid the caravan on its long journey. Ultimately, it took over a month to relocate the government to the capitol. Additional Comments:The state Bank of Indiana was a government chartered banking institution established in 1833 in response to the state's shortage of capital caused by the closure of the Second Bank of the United States by the administration of President Andrew Jackson. The bank operated for twenty six years and allowed the state to finance its internal improvements, stabilized the state's currency problems, and encouraged greater private economic growth. The bank closed in 1859. Source: Partial information from Wikipedia.
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Post by David Sechrest on Aug 29, 2009 3:32:47 GMT -5
Women Assembled On A Street Around 1870 Columbus, Indiana
Location: Probably on Washington Street
Source: From the New York Public Library by Schaub, J. T. -- Photographer. Original source: Robert N. Dennis collection of stereoscopic views. This image is in the public domain because it is a mere mechanical scan or photocopy of a public domain original, or – from the available evidence – is so similar to such a scan or photocopy that no copyright protection can be expected to arise. Picture from From Wikimedia Commons. Note I processed the picture to take out some of the yellow in the picture.
For Your Information: Stereoscopy, stereoscopic imaging or 3-D (three-dimensional) imaging is any technique capable of recording three-dimensional visual information or creating the illusion of depth in an image. The illusion of depth in a photograph, movie, or other two-dimensional image is created by presenting a slightly different image to each eye. Many 3D displays use this method to convey images. It was first invented by Sir Charles Wheatstone in 1840. [/size] Sorry--I haven't read through all of the posts regarding this picture, but I know that the location is most likely in question.
My thoughts:
I "think" the picture is taken on 3rd Street looking east of Washington St. If you look real closely at the building on the right (the one that says Liquor at the top), it has arches in the front. The Crump had these similar arches. They are so hard to make out though. And, there was a saloon inside the Theatre building.
IF in fact it is the Crump, the earliest the picture could have been taken would be 1889.
The building directly west of the "Liquor" building shows a lot of similarity to the Schwartkopf building, which sat on the southeast corner of 3rd and Washington and ran east along 3rd to the alley.
Look at the postcard of the Crump Theatre (first page) in the Crump Thread and you'll see the similarities.
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Post by David Sechrest on Aug 29, 2009 4:01:24 GMT -5
Heck--the picture may have been taken west of Washington, looking east along 3rd. It's so hard to get a sense of depth here!
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RER
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Post by RER on Aug 29, 2009 10:23:05 GMT -5
David Said: David Also Said: My Response: David I agree with your excellent guess about the Crump Theater and the Saloon comments. The building tops and windows of the following (cropped pictures and resized) show what you are saying. The Schwartkopf sign may have been one of Mr. Schwatkopf's bars and maybe the ladies are protesting the problems the saloon encountered during those days. The date of the picture has been questioned and I went back to the original and in these Stereoscopy type pictures there is always a range guess they place on them. Comment: The only problem is the building next to the building in question. That building would have to have been modified at some point. Maybe, it was under construction because it doesn't match. There is a separation of the two buildings because the side window shows a distinction. Also, look at the picture of a more flat top building of the Crump at you other website. Go here: www.historiccolumbusindiana.org/jscrump.htmHere are the two pictures to compare as you have suggested: Going East Going West
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Post by David Sechrest on Aug 29, 2009 12:05:50 GMT -5
Bob, don't forget there's an alley that runs north-south just west of the Crump (if that's the gap in the buildings you're talking about). I had a difficult time with this back some time ago and then the light bulb went off regarding the alley.
If you're talking about the gap on the left hand side (i.e., the lighter building where the "E" is, that gap would be Washington Street).
Also Bob, it's funny: I had the same initial reaction about the ladies protesting (lol)! I wouldn't say this is what they are doing for sure, BUT in reading through the old papers of the day, there were some people that weren't happy about all the saloons in Columbus
I checked the available Sanborn maps (as I'm sure you did as well), and the 1898 map does show two groceries located on 3rd St. just west of the G A R building (nw corner of 3rd and Washington).
But that Crump facade was unique at the time. The arch, plus those decorative "posts" sticking up on the corners sure do seem to match the ones in the picture you posted.
By the way, wasn't there an organization called the Daughters Of The American Revolution? Or am I confusing this with something else?
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Post by David Sechrest on Aug 29, 2009 12:07:32 GMT -5
By the way Bob, these are some great pictures of such an early Columbus. They're a great addition! Thanks for researching and finding them!
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Post by David Sechrest on Aug 29, 2009 12:36:42 GMT -5
Forget everything I said in the last couple of posts.
I now see the "difference" you were talking about Bob (in the buildings. You'll have to excuse me, I was up really late last night with severe cramping and just got up and am still quite not with it).
Good point.
I don't know if anyone knows the date of the Crump PC. Since Crump's Trolly was built in 1890, and electrified in 1893(?--I'll have to go back and check that), it would seem that your picture precedes either of these events. I would even suggest that the Belvedere was still the Bissell Hotel.
If my location is correct, then that means that lighter colored building in the background on the left would be where Irwin's Bank was located (ne corner or 3rd and Washington).
Back to your thoughts Bob, I'm with you. That part doesn't match up, but I can't think of any other building (the Crump) that would have had an arched facade in the downtown area at the time.
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RER
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Post by RER on Aug 29, 2009 13:18:28 GMT -5
David Said: My Response: I thought of the alley and below the partial shown window was maybe the alley at picture one. On the ladies present in the picture: As we all know the settlers were very religious and various churches popped up around the county, not just the city area. For, example the Moravian Church membership was a large group in the county. It seems that most of those members were populated in the area of Hope Indiana. A very large Moravian Church was built in Hope to accommodate the settlers. The ladies in black could have been a group of housewives, religious group, Moravian Church members or as you suggested the Daughters of The American Revolution (DAR). My best guess would be they are from a religious organization or specific church to rally against the saloons and drunks in town. The decorative posts on top of the roof and the windows do seem to match. My early research only found Mr. Schwartzkopf with these 3 businesses during 1870 time period. Notice it does show a Schwartzkopf saloon on present 3rd Street below. (a) Wagon & Plow Shop listed P.F. Schwartzkopf located on Jackson Street (b) Saloon listed F. Schwartzkopf located on Tipton (now 3rd Street) (c) Blacksmith P. F. Schwartzkopf & Company located also on Jackson Street. Interesting Future Pictures I found: Many Hope Indiana very old pictures including the Moravian Church being built and the final building picture. Being that Hope Indiana is part of Bartholomew County I will be posting and talking about them later. _____________________________ Brief History of Hope Moravian Church: Year 1879 (parsonage, Main Street, from Y.L. Seminary)In 1829, Martin Hauser of Salem, NC, and several of his families migrated to Indiana and its promise of rich farm land. The Hope Moravian Church was started by Martin Hauser on June 17, 1830. The first service held in the church was the fruit of more than 10 years of work, prayer and faithful dedication on Hauser's part. The community grew quickly, outgrowing its sanctuary in the first 6 years. Construction began on another, larger sanctuary in 1837, and yet again in 1875. Later additions to the church included the Fellowship Hall and basement in 1952. Most recently, the congregation has completed the Moravian Outreach Center which houses the Morningstar Preschool and hosts a wealth of other ministries _______________________ Source: From the New York Public Library. Original source: Robert N. Dennis collection of stereoscopic views. Stephen A. Schwarzman Building / Photography Collection, Miriam and Ira D. Wallach Division of Art, Prints and Photographs. This image is in the public domain because it is a mere mechanical scan or photocopy of a public domain original, or – from the available evidence – is so similar to such a scan or photocopy that no copyright protection can be expected to arise. Picture from From Wikimedia Commons. Note I processed the picture to take out some of the yellow in the picture. For Your Information: Stereoscopy, stereoscopic imaging or 3-D (three-dimensional) imaging is any technique capable of recording three-dimensional visual information or creating the illusion of depth in an image. The illusion of depth in a photograph, movie, or other two-dimensional image is created by presenting a slightly different image to each eye. Many 3D displays use this method to convey images. It was first invented by Sir Charles Wheatstone in 1840
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Rhonda
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Post by Rhonda on Aug 30, 2009 10:44:36 GMT -5
Looking at the photo.......again. I think there is another man, and you have the letter "J" right over his hat. I've also been considering the time of year that it is, how the shadows would have fallen, etc. It is obviously very late fall, winter, or very early spring. There are no leaves on the trees. The sun at that time of year would be lower in the southern sky. If this is Third Street, just west of the Crump, the photo must have been taken in the afternoon. That would create the correct shadow pattern that we see on the sidewalk.
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RER
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Post by RER on Aug 30, 2009 11:06:23 GMT -5
Rhonda Said:
Good observation by you Rhonda and I had not thought about the shadow, which would maybe confirm the sun going down West. With the other input thoughts you probably have confirmed the picture is going East.
Another Observation: Notice the wooden boxed in trees toward the bottom of each street tree. They apparently constructed the lumber around the tree to protect them from the wear and tear of tied up horses and buggies. If they had not done that the tree bark would have become worn over time and maybe destroyed the trees.
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RER
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Post by RER on Aug 30, 2009 11:23:33 GMT -5
Hope Indiana Year 1880 (Bartholomew County Indiana)Comment: Hope as we know is part of the county. We have talked and posted many things about Taylorsville, Edinburg and other local towns and places. It is only appropriate to talk and show pictures we have related to Hope. Hope is a very small town but a lot of history. I will post a few more pictures of the Hope community of the past. I suspect many Hope folks read these boards as some of those former Hope citizens may have even moved to Columbus Indiana. Enjoy, these and if you know anything about these pictures, we sure would love to read about them. Picture One: A house downtown Hope next to a commercial building. The picture is Circa 1880. A lady with an apron is standing on th porch. A beautiful 1800s wooden structured house. The commercial building appears to be brick. Picture Two: Now this downtown street scene looks familiar to me, but have no knowledge about it. The picture is Circa 1880. __________________________________ Source: From the New York Public Library. Original source: Robert N. Dennis collection of stereoscopic views. Stephen A. Schwarzman Building / Photography Collection, Miriam and Ira D. Wallach Division of Art, Prints and Photographs. This image is in the public domain because it is a mere mechanical scan or photocopy of a public domain original, or – from the available evidence – is so similar to such a scan or photocopy that no copyright protection can be expected to arise. Picture from From Wikimedia Commons. Note I processed the picture to take out some of the yellow in the picture. For Your Information: Stereoscopy, stereoscopic imaging or 3-D (three-dimensional) imaging is any technique capable of recording three-dimensional visual information or creating the illusion of depth in an image. The illusion of depth in a photograph, movie, or other two-dimensional image is created by presenting a slightly different image to each eye. Many 3D displays use this method to convey images. It was first invented by Sir Charles Wheatstone in 1840
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2009 11:47:33 GMT -5
After looking at the picture of the Lady's on the street several times , I am still drawn to the columns on the front of the building were the Lady's are assembled, they look very much like the columns on the front of the St. Denis Hotel in a picture of 1880.
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Post by Jason Hatton on Aug 31, 2009 15:07:39 GMT -5
Re: the pictures of the ladies (and two gentleman!) I completely agree with David and his assesment that the building at the far right has to be the Crump...or at least the building that would become Crump's New Theatre. I don't think there could have been two buildings in Columbus at that time with the distinct of a look. Also, I noticed that the window you see underneath the Liquor signed wall is visible today on the Crump. It has been bricked over, but the outline is still there! I just made a connection today that might or might not be relavent, but looking at the spiked posts and the arches this building must have been designed by Charles Sparrell (sp?). He designed several buildings in town including the old city hall aka the former Columbus Inn. You can see many similarities in these two buildings. Do we know for sure that this building was specifically designed for Crump's Theatre? Or could it have been something else before? Ronda I know we have some things in the Architectural Archive about Sparrell. Do we have a listing of buildings he designed and their dates? I will also check in our Columbus File. I am also embedding a picture that shows both of the images (the gathered ladies and 3rd st.) placed next to each other. After doing a lot of looking at them, I am convinced that they both are indeed taking on 3rd. Street...just facing different ways. The red circles indicate similarities. I feel that these are indeed the same buildings further solidifying the proof that the picture with the ladies was taken on 3rd. Street. So, at some point, this building was modified or replaced to get the building we see today with the bright orange bays (and the building that is in the Crump postcard). However, when that occured and consequently when the ladies' picture was taken is still up in the air.
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Post by Jason Hatton on Aug 31, 2009 15:29:29 GMT -5
Well, I did look at our Columbus File and Charles Sparrell's history is not well known. It seems he came to town about 1881 and left about 1900. But as I said that information is sketchy. Perhaps should help narrow down the time period (or maybe not!). He is indeed credited with designing Crump's New Theatre...this we know opened in 1889, but it could be under construction in this picture.
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Rhonda
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Post by Rhonda on Aug 31, 2009 19:10:20 GMT -5
We DO have a listing of buildings designed by Charles F. Sparrell in the Columbus Indiana Architectural Archives! In fact, I wrote an article about Mr. Sparrell for our web site. I also went around town and photographed all the buildings that we KNOW were designed by him. Everyone visit www.columbusarchives.org and click on the "Before the Moderns" to read about Mr. Sparrell. At the bottom of the article, click on "Visit Sparrell Buildings" to see most of the buildings. You can then click on each set of photos to enlarge them. Call me to come visit the Archives any time! I'm sure you'll be surprised at all we have!
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RER
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Post by RER on Sept 1, 2009 9:57:28 GMT -5
Rhonda Said: Well, I kept trying to open her blue web site she posted and it kept rejecting. Now, I said that shouldn't be and I kept trying off and on. Then I figured out what the problem was........the blue call up had a coma (,) at the end of the blue website. So, I removed it and then called up the website without the coma and here it is and now it works for me: www.columbusarchives.org (As Rhonda said "Everyone visit the website and click on the "Before the Moderns" to read about Mr. Sparrell")As, we all know whatever you type for a web address it may work or it may not. I have done the same thing before and it took a little time to figure out why it malfunctioned.
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RER
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Post by RER on Sept 1, 2009 10:16:37 GMT -5
HattenJ Said:
Jason:
Your find in red above further confirms that it is the Crump Theater. The year date has to be in the 1870s because the stereoscopy photos are ranged around that time period. Further, the Bartholomew County Court House was still under construction. Here is what I said at the beginning of these picture post series:
"Note clock is not installed and all window frames. Picture is taken looking West down present Washington Street. The Empire Style courthouse, designed by Isaac Hodgson, completed 1874. Constructed of red brick with white limestone trim. Foundation is rusticated blue limestone."
With the above coupled knowledge and discovery it is much confirmed that the year dates of these photos including the ladies on the street is dated in the early 1870. Thanks Jason for you discovery related to the bricked in window that you made reference. This as I said provides a solid confirmation of the picture in my view.
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Rhonda
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Post by Rhonda on Sept 1, 2009 18:46:54 GMT -5
Thanks for catching that comma. I didn't see it when I made the post. Glad you got it working, and made the correction for others.
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Post by David Sechrest on Sept 1, 2009 22:44:54 GMT -5
This picture gets curiouser and curiouser... From the 1888 History Of Bartholomew County reprinted in 1976:"Clock starts on April 3, 1875. The Bartholomew County courthouse clock which cost $5,000 . . . was first started April 3, 1875 when at 7 pm the gas light was turned on by the machinery, brilliantly illuminating the four dials." Then, you have the following inserts in the Evening Republican regarding J. S. Crump's Theatre:Tuesday, July 2, 1889: One or two bricklayers working on Crump's theatre building yesterday succumbed to the severe heat, and were compelled to quit work. If a sufficient number of tenders can be secured, all the brick work of the building will be completed this week... Monday, July 8, 1889: The new opera house building will soon be under roof. The timbers used in the construction of the building are exceedingly strong, making the structure substantial in every particular... Now, how can we have Crump's Theatre, which was built in 1889, in a picture taken sometime before April 3, 1875? Answer: Sanborn Map, 1886, 3 years before J. S. Crump's new theatreSanborn Map, 1890, a year after Crump's new theatreReferring to the top left quadrant of each map, Crump's Theatre was added to the back of the existing building. There most likely was remodeling on the inside of the existing structure as well as the facade (adding J. S. Crump's New Theatre across the top of the 3 arches). I'm sorry, but I'm astounded by this revelation. After researching the Crump, and by the accounts in the paper stating "new building," I assumed (see what happens??) the Crump was built from the ground up. Well, it was...just not the front. I've looked at the Crump postcard countless times and the front design of the building just seemed to have the words "Opera House" written all over it. Now I discover that's not the case at all... The Sanborn info ties in very well with LIQUOR on the side of the building in the picture, too. Now I'm wondering what year the street side of the building was built? The Evening Republican has mentioned that Keith's Arcade was at this location before the Crump. If this was ever a sign to keep the Sanborn Maps available at our local library, I cannot think of a better one! ! !
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Post by David Sechrest on Sept 2, 2009 12:19:19 GMT -5
George, when you compare the pictures taken of the Schwartzkopf house with the pictures of the ladies dressed in black, the EUREKA sign and that unreadable rectangular/octagonal sign appear in both pictures. Here's an enlarged and cropped shot of the Schwartzkopf pic only showing the buildings on the right hand side of the photo: Here's a terrible close-up of the signs in the pic looking at Schwartzkopf's.
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