1800-1899 Life In Columbus/Bartholomew County

[Ricky_Berkey]

There are so many corrections made to newpaper articles and even though they often publish corrections when you are doing research it is nearly impossible to get those corrections matched up with the original articles. We have of couse seen glaring errors show up in historical books as well which may never be corrected. All we can do is collect as much information in one place as we can, even then so much is open to individual interpretation.

Sept 15, 2009 0:43:06 GMT -5 David Sechrest said:

Rhonda said: Don't believe everything you read in that Indiana Historical Society pdf file about Mr. Irwin. It states that "in 1881, Irwin’s Bank moved to a red brick building designed by Alexander Girard..." Alexander Girard wasn't even BORN until 1907!

Rhonda, thanks for pointing this fact out.

After reading Harry McCawley's column regarding the Crump in last Thursday's paper, I noticed that leader line for the postcard image was inaccurate. I wrote him and told him that postcard pic had to have been taken sometime after 1893. Crump's street car line opened to the public on September 15, 1890. At first, the cars were pulled by horses. Circa 1893, they all went electric.

The picture in the Republic showed an electric powered trolley car and I pointed this fact out to Harry.

He printed a correction the following day.

It's not uncommon to find mistakes in the paper, or other reference books and I appreciate you correcting this...

[RER]

Hold Your Horses & Tie-Up Your Wagons On The Crump Theater
Columbus, Indiana



Yesterday, I said this" "Crump Theater Debate & Research Becomes Stalemated." However, I discovered the below in the Indiana Governor's sponsored website today. I don't know who wrote the summary about the history of the Crump, but it woke me up early this morning. The dates of 1870, 1920 and 1935 stood out and shouted, "stop the stalemate and press on.




Source: Indiana Department of Natural Resources (DNR) Website About Theaters:

Go here: www.in.gov/dnr/historic/files/historictheaters.pdf
_____________________________________
David Sechrest's Early Crump History:

www.historiccolumbusindiana.org/jscrump.htm

The top picture of David's post of the early crump site looks like the A. Tross present building across from the Courthouse. The fencing around the courthouse is the same that George confirmed in a post about a year ago. The dates he states in his post during the 1870s are interesting too.

[Ricky_Berkey]

Heres a similar but slightly different version from www.cinematreasures.org


"In a building dating to 1874, John Crump opened his Opera House in 1889. In 1914, the first movies were shown, and not long afterwards, the Opera House was renamed the Crump Theatre.

In 1934, seating was increased when the orchestra pit was removed, and the same year, the Crump was nearly renamed the Ritz.

The Crump underwent a thorough renovation in 1941, when it was redesigned in Art Moderne style, including its dramatic facade, with its two-story tall vertical marquee, illuminated by chaser lights.

The Crump remained popular for decades, until declining ticket sales forced the theater to close in 1987. That year, the old theater came close to being demolished, but fortunately was spared.

Since 2001, the Crump has been undergoing a restoration project, with the facade's repairs completed by late 2001, it's marquee lit up for the first time in many years during that year's holiday season."

Sept 15, 2009 10:12:24 GMT -5 RER said:

Hold Your Horses & Tie-Up Your Wagons On The Crump Theater
Columbus, Indiana

[RER]

The 1870s Crump Theater Building Windows Bricked Over Views

Below I have circled (in red) the one window that is shown during the 1870s and the second picture is the bricked over area of today. You have to look close to see the top arch of the window bricked in but it is there. Several days ago Jason or someone mentioned the window bricking was viewable and the remnants of the liquor store wording.

1870s 1995

Source of pictures partials: NY Public Library and the second from Indiana University. Both are cropped to relate to the discussion.

[guest]

when I was growing up in columbus A Tross clothing was on washinting st..when did they move it or was it?

[RER]

Hi Guest:

A. Tross building has not ever moved and closed many years ago. The building is the same as you remember and the A. Tross name is still on the outside of the building.

In the Crump site that I referenced of David Sechrest it showed a Crump something. I was saying that looked like the A. Tross building of later years across for the courthouse. Go to David's site I referenced and read the whole page of his summary. You will see the building with the Crump sign at the top.

Comment update: I went back and read David's history summary and he said that A. Tross occupied the same area in the building later after the Crump establishment.

[David Sechrest]

guest said: when I was growing up in columbus A Tross clothing was on washinting st..when did they move it or was it?

As far as I know, A. Tross was in that same location on Washington Street. You can find their name on the building today. At least that much was kept...

[Ricky_Berkey]

In the fairly recent Republic newspaper book entitled "Steps Thru Time" on page 8, they incorrectly identify that building as the Crump Theatre on 3rd Street. We have yet to determine exactly what it was but it says "Crump's" across the very top. It is on Washington across from the Courthouse in the same building that was later A. Tross.

Sept 15, 2009 12:53:59 GMT -5 RER said:

Hi Guest:

A. Tross building has not ever moved and closed many years ago. The building is the same as you remember and the A. Tross name is still on the outside of the building.

In the Crump site that I referenced of David Sechrest it showed a Crump something. I was saying that looked like the A. Tross building of later years across for the courthouse. Go to David's site I referenced and read the whole page of his summary. You will see the building with the Crump sign at the top.

Comment update: I went back and read David's history summary and he said that A. Tross occupied the same area in the building later after the Crump establishment.

[David Sechrest]

I would not necessarily call this a stalemate. After all, this isn't a game between Jason and myself. It is just two guys sharing thoughts and ideas and trying to establish a date of a picture.

There are still avenues out there that may lead to an answer. One being the Daily or Evening Republican articles of the day. It seemed one of the most popular articles of the time was the comings and goings of people. It very well could be that Mr. Schaub is mentioned within one of these snippets, and I do plan on going to the library and checking though these. That can turn out to be quite a task in and of itself, but the info just may be within the paper. Another possibility may come from the steam engine in one of Mr. Schaub's other picture of Columbus. Just when was that engine made? By whom and what years was it in service?

The other thing regarding the two Crump website timelines posted here:

It is factual knowledge and well documented that J. S. Crump's New Theatre opened on October 29, 1889.

It is factual knowledge and well documented regarding the renovation to the Theatre in 1920.

It is factual knowledge and well documented that Louis Holwager purchased the Crump in 1931.

It is factual knowledge and well documented that there was a contest to change the name of the Crump in 1934.

There are questions regarding the renovations circa 1931-1935 and 1941. I'll have to dig out the accounts of the day once again regarding the addition of the marquee and the vitrolite glass front.

I haven't given up on this and I believe that, eventually, we will find an answer...

[David Sechrest]

Ricky said: In the fairly recent Republic newspaper book entitled "Steps Thru Time" on page 8, they incorrectly identify that building as the Crump Theatre on 3rd Street. We have yet to determine exactly what it was but it says "Crump's" across the very top. It is on Washington across from the Courthouse in the same building that was later A. Tross.

Harry McCawley wrote an article not too long ago addressing this mistaken identity (last year?). I think I have it around here somewhere (for those interested, you can catch up on the details in the Crump Thread here on the Message Board, as well as the Crump Theatre article on the website).

But, with George's help, all here should agree that that Crump building was on Washington Street where A. Tross would be. We just don't know what type of business it was.

Does anyone have any info right off-hand as to when A. Tross opened for business? Is the date included with the name on the building? I can't recall without driving downtown. Ricky, would you know right offhand?

[David Sechrest]

There are still some aspects that bother me about the ladies picture. Some I've already noted. It just seems sort of strange to me that there are only 4 pictures of Columbus offered in this collection, and two of them include pictures of the Courthouse with no windows and no clock facing. I keep asking myself, why only 4 pictures? If there were more, I could understand much better that he may have made numerous trips to Columbus to photograph people and places. But only 4? Because of this, my "logical" side says that all the pictures were taken within a day or two, if not the same day. But hey, that's only my opinion.

It could very well be that the ladies picture is discussed within some issue of the Daily/Evening Republican of the day. Any search would begin before April 3, 1874, and it could very well be that all 4 pictures were taken in 1874. After all, the Courthouse is almost finished by all indications in two of the pictures.

[Deleted]

Bob........your statement " Hold your horses & Tie up your Wagons " brought back memories of the hitching posts around the court house square, I'm getting a little " long in the tooth " as they say, but I do remember the cast iron hitching posts on the Jackson St. side and the 2nd. St. side of the court house. This is back when the west half of the square was a park like setting and it would be full of people all day and all evening on Saturday.

[RER]

George.........I am laughing as I write this about the "Hold Your Horses and Tie Up The Wagons"............my brother read it today and was in his vehicle in the town he lives in, and called me on the cell phone. I answered hello..........the voice said: "Hold Your Horses and Tie Up The Wagon".............I cracked up, but a good laugh for today. Anyway, what you said was interesting about the tie-up posts around Jackson Street, and the courthouse.

[David Sechrest]

From the 1978 reprint of the Illustrated Historical Atlas Of Bartholomew County, 1879.

"The historical text of the Atlas was written in 1879 by Col. John A. Keith..."

1854 Isham Keith...father...native of Virginia...moves to the Columbus area from Franklin county...start a mercantile business at the northwest corner of Third and Washington streets (could it be at all possible that the CLOTHING business in the Schwartzkopf picture is owned by Isham?). Isham Keith lived at 803 California Street. He passed on December 12, 1881 (same year as Francis J. Crump I)

1860...Isham Keith and the younger son, Squire Isham, establishes a hardware store at the southeast corner of the same intersection, with Keith's Hall, for stage shows, in the rear section of the second floor.

Later, the Keith's erected Keith's Arcade, with a theater and offices at the present location of the Crump theater on Third Street...

[David Sechrest]

Here is an interesting picture of the Courthouse area from the 1879 Atlas:

I know the print is too small to read, but it's interesting to note the following:

Bartholomew Court House, erected 1871...(I thought it was 1874)

By the way...the sign on the building to the left (se corner of 3rd & Washington) says Office, Columbus City News. The Western Hotel can be found immediately right of the Columbus City News building...in the background (someone emailed me pictures of the Jones/Western Hotel, taken sometime in the 1890's I think, and they are great! I'm hoping I will get permission to post them on the website in the near future! This hotel was known as the Jones Hotel when it first opened on that sw corner of 2nd and Washington. I'll have to check the year it became the Western, but I think it was in the 1890's.). There's another hotel just to the right of the Courthouse one house away from the sw corner of 3rd and Jackson. It's the Indiana House.

[David Sechrest]

Here's a very informative map from the 1879 Atlas. It includes most of Columbus Township. Click on the map for a much better look.



Directly up from the word COLUMBUS on the map, look for John S. Crump. In small letters, it also says family graves.

Just by eyeballing the location, it sure looks like the graves in Mead Village that George and Richard showed me back some time ago. North of National Road.

Which peaks my curiosity about that picture of the Crump home in the Mystery Photo Thread. I know John Crump farmed this land at some point around 1879. One of the city directories list him as "farmer."

[David Sechrest]

Another map from the 1879 Atlas. This includes all of Bartholomew County. Click on the thumbnail below, then click a couple more times on the image for maximum resolution. This map shows the locations of churches and schools throughout the county.



I should mention that the items I've been posting are not copyrighted.

[David Sechrest]

This is most of Columbus in 1879. It's a rather large file, coming in around 1.7 meg, so it may take a little longer to load. But--it's definitely worth it. I will be providing enlarged, cropped shots of city blocks from this map.

[David Sechrest]

This is a cropped section from the previous 1879 map, highlighting the entire block where the Crump Theatre stands today. This much can be said regarding the text written on the map. In the Crump Theatre location, I really think it does say Keith's Arcade Building, then next to that, job printing, then Columbian Office. I think the Columbian was an early newspaper in Columbus

Keith's Law Office is on the se corner of 3rd and Washington. It appears there's some printing toward the rear of this building, but it's very difficult to read.

[David Sechrest]

This next block is Washington Street (on your left), with 4th Street at the bottom. Note the businesses on the north side of 4th Street